Sciatica is term to describe pain that can include any part of your lower extremity from your buttocks all the way down to your toes. It occurs when your sciatic nerve, a very large bundle of nerve fibers that begins in your lower back and travel downward to provide nerve information to your legs and feet.
“Sciatica” is a general or descriptive term and not a specific medical condition, because it can be caused by many primary conditions. In other words, if you have sciatica it is purely a symptom of an underlying condition.
The most common causes of sciatica are:
· Disc bulge or herniation
· Disc degeneration
· Subluxation or misalignment of spinal bones
· Spasm of the Piriformis muscle in the buttocks
· Tumor of the lower spine
Much is written about disc disease, bulges and herniations. Subluxations are also referenced a lot particularly by Doctors of Chiropractic. Tumors are relatively rare. Piriformis muscle spasm is getting more and more attention and in fact is becoming so “popular,” I am beginning to see it becoming “over diagnosed” by many general practitioners of all persuasions.
Therefore, this article will briefly explain what Piriformis syndrome is, how to tell if you actually have it and what can be done about it.
To understand Piriformis syndrome you just first be familiar with two important anatomic structures: The Piriformis muscle and the sciatic nerve.
The Piriformis muscle is located underneath your gluteus maximus muscle. It attaches to the side of the sacrum or tailbone and inserts into the top of the femur or hipbone. It’s purpose or action is to rotate your leg outward. The Piriformis muscles shape varies from person to person.
The largest nerve in the body is the sciatica nerve, which is a bundle of nerves that arises from he spinal cord at about the L4, L5, S1, S2, S3 and S4 levels. I say about because this nerve varies from person to person. Some people have branches that being as high as L2 or L3. Skin sensation and muscle strength of the thigh, lower leg and foot are supplied by the sciatic nerve.
In many people the sciatic nerve passes under the Piriformis muscle and then branches off into two parts to supply different parts of the leg. In others, the nerve may branch before the Piriformis muscle and overlap parts of it and still another variation is where the Piriformis muscle is split in two parts with the sciatic nerve passing between the muscle branches.
In Piriformis syndrome the muscle contracts and thickens due to spasm in response to a strain, injury or chronic postural stress. When it thickens it squeezes the sciatic nerve causing the characteristic pain from the buttocks to the thigh or lower leg.
How to tell if you have Piriformis syndrome:
This is a simple 5-second test that will tell you if your sciatica is caused by your Piriformis muscle. Locate the area of your Piriformis muscle by finding the part of your hip bone on the side of your leg that sticks out. Slide your fingers backwards towards your buttocks 3-4 inches. You should be over the Piriformis. Put firm deep pressure with a thumb or fingers into the buttocks over the Piriformis area. If you have pain only where your fingers are pressing, you have an inflamed Piriformis, but not Piriformis syndrome. Your sciatica is probably caused by one of the other causes mentioned earlier.
If on the other hand, you have localized pain and also experience numbness, tingling and/or pain radiating down your leg, it is likely you have Piriformis syndrome as a cause of your sciatica.
What to do about Piriformis syndrome:
Successful treatment and a good recovery rate are often found with chiropractic manipulation of the sacrum and pelvis along with therapy modalities such as heat, stretching, deep massage, electrical stimulation, etc. The initial goals of treatment are to reduce inflammation around the nerve and reduce spasm of the muscle. Later, stretching and active exercises are employed to keep the muscle relaxed and elongated rather than bunched up.
Chronically recurring Piriformis syndrome may indicate you have a variation of the sciatic nerve and/or Piriformis muscle in which you are predisposed to this problem. Reportedly, 15% of the population has this variation. It may also indicate an underlying disc issue where the nerves are being slightly irritated by the disc bulge and then again by a tight Piriformis muscle. The resultant “double crush” of the nerve causes sciatic pain. Both the disc and the muscle must be treated for complete resolution.
Why the confusion over diagnosis?
Many cases of sciatica, no mater what the underlying cause, present with tightness and tenderness of the buttocks musculature. Often general practitioners, who do not spend the majority of their time focused on this one area of the body, misdiagnose Piriformis tightness and tenderness with the sciatica-causing syndrome. True Piriformis induced sciatica must reproduce leg pain on palpation of the muscle. If not, it is just a tight sore muscle.
For more information on sciatica and it’s many causes and for information on other low back pain related issues, visit http://www.cureforlowerbackpain.com.
August 11, 2008 at 7:06 pm |
[...] which causes referred pain down to the buttocks, thigh, leg or foot. This is called “sciatica.” How far down the leg the pain travels depends on which nerves are [...]
August 12, 2008 at 4:43 pm |
Thanks! I have what seems to be piriformis syndrome. Have had sciatia problems in the past but this seem different. My exercise has not helped. I have the pain and burning in both sides of the buttock, down both legs. I’ll do more research.
August 12, 2008 at 5:24 pm |
Thanks for commenitng Mary Jane.
Sorry to hear you’re in pain. Here are a couple of questions I ahve to clarify:
Piriformis syndrome is usually one sided not both.
Does your pain increase with walking and standing and relieved by sitting?
What do your x-rays or MRI show?
Is your problem worst in the morning and then improve throughout the day?
These are critical questions that need to be answered to know what your problem is and what can be done about it.
Warmest regards,
Dr Barry L Marks, DC
August 26, 2008 at 9:01 am |
Thanks for the information.
I have a burning pain/discomfort through both my buttocks and 3/4 down both my thighs. It is equal on both sides. My doctor ordered blood tests and X-ray, but had no findings and prescribed a B vitamin and 3 Advil 3x/day.
I took the Advil for a few weeks to no result, and began to worry about the long term effects. The B vitamin upset my stomach, and since I thought it was a panacea anyway, I stopped taking that as well.
This pain/discomfort has been ongoing for 7 months. It is not so bad in the morning, but worsens progressively the longer I sit throughout the day. As a result, I don’t sit for more than an hour or two total each day — just long enough to eat dinner or drive. I do experience discomfort through my hips at night, but usually in the morning I feel better. However, I feel the most relief when I am standing (and have taken 3 Advil) and have not spent much time sitting throughout the day.
This is my third occurrence in my life, as far as I can remember. The other 2 occurrences were quickly handled by reducing my amount of sitting time.
It may have started this time by using my Nordic Track (Stationary cross-country ski machine) and sitting too long at my computer. The other 2 occurrences that I can remember I attribute to prolonged sitting during graduate school and working at my computer. Not sports-injury.
I need to see my doctor again, but since I received the brush off the first time, I’m nervous about making another appointment. But clearly, I have not been able to handle this on my own.
Does this sound like Piriformis syndrome to you? Bursitis? Arthritis? I am a 41 year old woman with 2 children. I am in great health and a normal weight, although I do not exercise frequently.
Thank you again.
August 27, 2008 at 1:35 pm |
[...] This is a case study of a 41 year old female blogger with bilateral buttocks pain who has requested help diagnosing her problem after an unsuccessful course of treatment with her family medical physician. For background see the comments on this post: Piriformis Syndrome…a pain in the butt… [...]
March 6, 2009 at 6:59 pm |
I have been suffering with excruciating left outer let pain that radiates across my ankle. It feels like someone is trying to rip the muscle away from the leg bone. I have had x-rays, 2 MRI’s one lying and the other sitting, a total body bone scan, epidural, cortisone shot, acupuncture, and am now seeing a chiropractor who says I have Facet syndrome and Piriformis syndrome. The pain began in my thigh about 8 weeks ago, unfortunately I did not seek medical attention because the pain was tolerable and I believed it would heal on its own. One month ago the pain got so bad I was barely able to function. The pain is so excruciating especially when I sit longer than 3-5 minutes or when I’m standing or walking. The only time it is tolerable is when I am flat on my back. Needless to say the pain subsides when I am sleeping.
Please HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!
March 6, 2009 at 8:10 pm |
Hi Angela,
So sorry to hear about your pain.
To help you, please reply with the following information:
In your own owirds and understanding, what did the x-rays and MRI’s show?
If you have reports, what specifically do the reports say?
You said the pain started in your thigh, where at? The front of the thigh or the back of the thigh?
What were the results you got from the epidural? And did you have more than one injection?
Answering these questions will greatly help me assist you in finding a solution to your problem.
Also, go read this post on my other blog and let me know what the results are:
http://spinaldecompression.wordpress.com/2009/01/05/back-pain-quick-check-disc-pain-vs-joint-pain/
I’m looking forward to hearing back from you soon and helping you feel better.
Warmest regards,
Dr Barry L Marks, DC
http://www.orangespinaldecompression.com
March 6, 2009 at 9:48 pm |
Dr M. All of the tests were negative. No herniation, bulging discs, etc. I got absolutely no relief from the the cortisone shot which by the way was suppose to be for bursitis. No relief from the epidural, was suppose to have another on Monday March 9, but the hospital called today to say my insurance denied the request. I have taken a bottle of Advil, also have taken percocet, darvocet, Aleve, hot bathes, ice, a natural pain reliever called Curamin but nothing relieves the pain, not even temporarily. The pain actually started on the front of my thigh when I bent forward to dry my hair I could really feel the discomfort. Now that pain has entirely vanished, it is just the pain on the outside of my leg and across my ankle that has reduced me to a mere invalid.
April 28, 2009 at 8:59 pm |
Angela,
Sorry I am just now getting back to you. It appeared this post was a duplicate while it was actually a new comment on the same day. Sorry. If you are still suffering with this problem then here is some advice.
This sure sounds like nerve compression somewhere. Are you absolutely sure your MRI was negative? Did your doctor review the actual films with you? I would find another doctor to look over your films and tests to see if the others have missed something. Are you tender along your groin area to the touch? If you press along your groin does it cause numbness, tingling or pain on your thigh or leg? Do you have increased pain on straining, bowel movement, coughing or sneezing? These are signs of a possible disc problem or other mass in your spine causing nerve pressure.
Dr Barry Marks, DC
http://www.orangespinaldecompression.com
April 30, 2009 at 2:08 am |
Dr. M:
Today I was diagnosed with Piriformis Syndrome. After doing quite a bit of research online, I’m convinced I finally have the right diagnosis.
I had an MRI of the lower lumbar region. My PCP looked over the report and made the statement, “Oh, this isn’t too bad.” To which I responded, “Well it sure hurts like hell.” He sent me to see a Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation Physician. Before I was able to get in to see this specialist, I went to physical therapy in which the physical therapist treated me for a herniated disc due to the MRI report saying there was a bulging disc. He used the usual heat, stim, and ultrasound therapy as well as traction therapy.
When I saw the physical medicine physician, he quickly reviewed my history with my PCP and looked at my MRI. He said that my scan was clean. I asked about the bulging disc to which he replied that it’s normal to have at least one slight bulge, but that it did not appear that this bulge was interfering with any nerves.
I’m just wondering about some of my symptoms. In the recent weeks, I have noticed that my condition is aggravated when I sit, but I’m most in pain when I stand. When pain was first presented, sitting seemed to help, but this is not the case now. Is this a normal symptom of Piriformis Syndrome? When I walk, I feel I have to lean forward. I have also noticed that my back muscles are going into spasms when I stand now too. I’ve just started stretches so I can’t report that they are helping.
I’m just so frustrated because I’ve had this pain (starting in the left buttock and radiating down the back of my thigh to my knee and, at times, down to my calf) for 12 weeks.
Thanks,
Jody
April 30, 2009 at 5:49 am |
Hi Jody,
Sorry about your butt and leg pain.
First, let me emphatically state that any size disc bulge can cause symptoms. Small or large, pressing directly on a nerve or not, any bulge may cause pain. Doctors often forget that the spine does not have empty holes that nerves travel through. The canals that contain the nerves are packed with fat, nerves, and blood and lymph vessels. Any pressure pushing inward into the canal raises pressure around the nerves and can cause pain. So despite an MRI with only small bulges and no direct nerve impingement doesn’t mean the disc is not the problem.
Next, disc bulges are common, but not normal. It’s a fallacy that “everyone over a certain age has disc bulges.” That is simply not true. Disc dehydration, bulging and/or herniation is pathologic and in many cases is a source of pain.
Okay, so do you really have Piriformis syndrome or do you have disc disease? Get my Free Piriformis Syndrome ebook to learn more about it:
http://spinaldecompression.wordpress.com/2008/10/06/free-piriformis-syndrome-e-book/
This ebook will tell you how to self diagnose. One way to see if it is Piriformis syndrome is to treat your condition like it is and see what happens. P-syndrome usually responds well to manual therapies. Heat, deep massage, electrical stimulation, stretches and ice given 2-3 times a week for a couple of weeks should provide marked relief. If not, then suspect a disc problem.
Leaning forward and your back muscles spasming are not typical of Piriformis syndrome. They are more aligned with disc problems. Piriformis syndrome also does not usually radiate to the calf, while a lower disc issue will. Here’s a quick check for disc problems that you can do on yourself:
http://spinaldecompression.wordpress.com/2009/01/05/back-pain-quick-check-disc-pain-vs-joint-pain/
Jody, you are not alone suffering with your pain for 12 weeks. Back and leg pain are conditions that can be difficult to treat, mainly due to poor diagnosis. These leads to chronic suffering. If you got o 10 doctors you are likely not to get a consensus on what your problem is. You could get 10 different diagnoses! The key is to keep trying to find the person that can correctly diagnose you and provide the appropriate treatment to solve your problem.
Review the resources I’ve given you and also review the other information available on my other blog, http://spinaldecompression.wordpress.com. This site is totally dedicated to just your type of problem. Afterwards please come back here and let me know if you have any additional questions.
I pray you find what you need.
Warmest regards,
Dr Barry L Marks, DC
http://www.orangespinaldecompression.com
June 29, 2009 at 2:35 pm |
Dear Doctor,
I am suffering from pain, starting in the left buttock & radiating through the back of my thigh to the calf muscels. Kindly help me, which Speacialist Doctor should I consult & what could be the course of treatment.
Thanks & Regards,
Saji Mathew
No:36,Namnasseril House,
5th D Cross,Manjunatha Layout,
Wind Tunnel Road,Murgeshpalaya,
Bangalore – 560017. India.
Mobile:9845852485
July 20, 2009 at 9:16 pm |
Saji,
Sorry to ehar of your pain. Your condition is most likely sciatica. You should have a work up of plain xrays and then an MRI. Dependign on what the casue of the sciatica is, I believe you should see a chriopractor or physio therapist. If your pain persists, locate a doctor near you with a DRX9000. I hope this helps.
Warmest regards,
Dr Barry Marks
http://www.drbarrymarks.com
August 6, 2009 at 9:27 am |
DR.M
for about 10 years I have been experiencing buttock pain. If it started to go down my leg I would take it easy for a few days and have acupuncture treatments. But this week something more intense happened I started getting very intense buttock pain for about 5 nights after going to bed each night it deepened until I could not stand it. (This all started after I got knocked around very roughly in the ocean)I have been getting acupuncture treatments for 4 days now the pain is much better I don’t even need to take anything for the pain because it is manageable. But yesterday I realized that I have weakness in my right calf I can not go up on my toes and I really have to work at walking. If I roll my foot to the outside it is much easier. The weakness seems to be coming from the inside of my calf. I am a very active person and have been training to work in the athletic field. I regularly run, dance, work out and do yoga. I am afraid that this is going to change my life. 10 years ago when it first started I did have an MRI and the doctor told me I had a slight bulge in my disk but to try everything possible before considering surgery that’s when I tried acupuncture and got through it and resumed my active lifestyle. My acupuncturist always told me it was most likely piriformis syndrom My question is does this something that I most likely can work through or should I be alarmed due to the weakness.
Thank you
Wendy
August 6, 2009 at 4:07 pm |
Hi Wendy,
Sorry about your butt and leg problem. It sounds like you are suffering from progressive degeneration of your disc. Over time it is probably bulging out more causing more pressure on the nerves. This is causing weakness of your leg as there is insufficient nerve flow to those muscles. This is serious Wendy.
While chiropractic adjustments and acupuncture often relieve the pain associated with a disc problem, the disc itself continues to deteriorate and eventually compromises the nerves.
What needs to happen is to shrink the disc bulges so that pressure is taken off of the nerves and then rigorously exercises your legs to regain strength before t is too late an they become permanently atrophied.
There are only 2 ways to decompress the discs and nerves:
1. Spinal decompression using a DRX9000 non-surgical therapy program
2. Surgery
Obviously an active, and I’m assuming fairly young woman, would want to put off surgery until everything else has been exhausted.
Educate yourself about DRX9000 spinal decomrpession by visiting http://orangespinaldecompression.com and my other blog, incidentally dedicate to just your problem, http://spinaldecompression.wordpress.com. Afterwards please contact me and I will help you find someone in your area for an evaluation to see if that is a viable solution for you.
I wish you luck and want to emphasize my desire to help you, so please feel free to contact me.
Warmest regards,
Dr Barry Marks, DC
http://www.drbarrymarks.com
August 11, 2009 at 11:59 pm |
Hello, Dr Barry Marks. This might be the most unsual and interesting case you might have ever heard, and the scariest for me, some of the symptoms i might describe might be from anxiety i must admit since being without a diagnosis really makes you think of the worst and what im thinking is spondolythesis, my greatest fear since i will not be able to play sports as before. Everything i write here started a month and half ago.
Anyways for the last 8 months ive playing some soccer and doing stretching exercises and inverted sit ups ( thats the things that i think contributed to my condition ) they really relaxed my body better performance in soccer but maybe i pushed myself too hard, so i stopped 6 months after i started and 2 months after i decided to stretch to the back to the front sides several times because i felt my back was not flexible i guess, it was one night only, im super flexible unfortunately so the physical tests they do come all negative.
So it all started with an eletric shock in my back from the middle to the low back maybe i forgot, it was when i was sitting , it didnt hurt, then after that i had muscle twiches they didnt hurt and they never do , on my legs and arms maybe i cant really remember, tinglig in my fingers. then three days after that i had a shooting pain in my right leg, it didnt hurt but really scary. first thing i thought ” I herniated a disc with the stretches and soccer god damn it” i went to the 1st doctor he said it was anxiety, fine i felt great, itll go away. Days after that had some little stabbing pain in my knee and some right lower back ache maybe. went to chiropractor, said anxiety. after done with him i was in the car sitting and after i got out of the seat i went to rest and my back was BURNING LIKE HELL like an infection. it went away, 2 days after that, i slept with my back burning like hell . Then two days after that my neck shoulders and arms fingers burning LIKE HELL ! i was slepping w/o pillow saggy matress. 5 days after that the pain was not getting worse but it was going way down the leg and the other leg too, all the way to the toes it was dull sciatica ache. It agravated to both legs and L4 L5 S1 spots and right lower back ache. After that i had pain in fingers arms shoulders and muscle twitches in in arms upper back low back.
well after one month it has all come to this, pain in hands arms fingers almost gone (almost).
Now I have pain in both buttocks usually when lying down and dull sciatica that likes to mess with me from my buttocks to the toes and some dull ache in lower back recently and it switches to the center of my back and the other side too but rarely, sometimes it burns too much if i sleep in a saggy matress so i apply ice, my lower back feels irritated, had some very bad tingling sensations in my lower back two days ago and hips, after trying to stretch to the back to see if it causes any pain, which it didnt right away but the tingling came back hours later.
Had an MRI which showed basically nothing but a straigthening of the lumbar spine. No spondolythesis, stenosis, nothing.
Had xrays done AP/Lateral: “no bony fractures or abnormalities but there is a considerable amount of …. number two”
Blood test: all negative no infection, no lyme disease, no diabetes, no nothing.
Reflexes and nerve damage: not much reflexes all there, never hand numbness, but i have tingling in toes fingers .
I must add that before you call me severely depressed i was a very happy and full of life guy before this, college was so easy and everything was going smoothly until this happened, i dropped out of summer class
.
Now an active day of walking usually gives me less symptons. Sitting for some amount of time makes my buttock and sciatica to any of the legs come up ( number 4 pain at the most ). As i type now i have some middle lower back discomfort.
I can bend to any direction because of my stretches without pain. but some movements activate the pain like randomly.
Twitches in the legs and back usually happen when I lie down at night, pain comes at night and when sitting, walking not so much, i like walking.
I dont know what else to tell you. the neurologist ive been seeing said i hurt the muscle deep inside withtin my back because there is no way you have billateral sciatica in l4 l5 s1 spots from spondo, herniated disc, or anything at the lower spine roots.
I asked him about a friend of mine who developed spondo and had similar symptons back tingling burning (althought he had cracking and very bad tingling and muscle spasms) he said dont worry you dont have it you wont develop it.
Im a lot relieved by it, realy but the symptons are still there and I avoid sitting like the plague.
But still i want to find out whats wrong with me before trying to play soccer or swimming you know.
I must admit some of it no more than half of these symptons are from anxiety/stress.
Im going to get a CT scan of the lumbar probably to make sure i dont have small fractures or something.
Used to go to chiropractor it did some relief, and they are very confident, even hugged me thinking im crazy and super anxious after i tell them my symptons.
have you heard a case like this? What should I do next? The neuro gave me zanaflex it recuded the pain by two points, thats about it.
August 13, 2009 at 11:49 pm |
Well, this is certainly an interesting case. And to be young and active and suddenly not be able to participate would create anxiety in most people.
But, I think that’s a cop out. BS. Baloney. Huey.
Your signs and symptoms are fairly common symptoms for disc problems. The doctor who told you, that you couldn’t get bilateral L4, L5, S1 leg pain from a herniated disc is mistaken. I see cases like that very often.
I’m disturbed by your assessment of your MRI. I realize it is second hand and I’m not privy to the actual report, but I often talk to patients whose doctors have made remarks that their MRI was “pretty much normal” or “no big deal” or “there’s a bulge but it’s not big enough to cause problem.” Then when I examine them and read heir MRI films, I see a correlation between their pain and MRI. Things can be subtle. A bulge doesn’t have to be huge or be seen pressing on nerves. All that is needed is a small amount of pressure or inflammation to irritate the nerves to cause pain.
I’m not convinced you are not suffering from discogenic sciatica. That would be consistent with pain on sitting and laying down. I’d like to see the entire MRI report or if you have the films, take a digital picture and send them to me so I can see them.
Good luck! I’d like to help, so forward more info.
Warmest regards,
Dr Barry Marks, DC
http://www.drbarrymarks.com
September 11, 2009 at 12:31 am |
Dear Dr. M
Hi today is the first day in four years that I am happy to report I have found a Dr. who has told me more about my pain in the buttocks and is going to work with me on repairing the damage. i actually cried in his office today. I have been dealing with this pain that started with a herniated disc that has healed itself and I am able to properly use my left leg.
I am doing research now on the piriformis muscle syndrome which he believes I have. He was the 1st Dr. in 4 years who didn’t first offer me pain pills and muscle relaxers which I have refused to take for fear of addiction.
I cried because for the first time in four years I feel someone actually is able to help me and not think I am crazy. I have been telling my hubby for years there is something wrong I just don’t know where to go to get the help and I am not crazy and I don’t want to be on the drugs. I have 2 jobs and 2 children I am a busy busy girl who is 42 years old but feels more like 82. Mentally 22. Yeah!! I just wasn’t giving up. He also said I too have bursitis in my hips. So we are going to do some pro active treatment. I did the DRX9000 and it did nothing for me. So we are working with me. He said it wouldn’t happen over night since my pain has been here four years it will take some time to heal. Thank God!! I just wanted to write and say thank you for your information and to tell every one to keep trying. WE are not crazy just wanting some relief.
Sincerely Sabrina
November 8, 2009 at 12:27 am |
Dr. Marks, I have been suffering with stabbing pain and stabbing spasms in my right butt cheek and upper leg right under the buttocks. They make me freeze for a moment occasionally when I am walking in severe spasm and pain and/or my leg may give out a little. It seemed to come on gradually 7 months ago to what is now unbearable. I had a L4 L5 fusion and lamenectomy 1 1/2 yrs. ago. Once I was recuperated it was like I had a new back. I still have total movement in that I can sit in a chair and bend over and touch the floor over and over (with no pain). My pain seems to be extreme when I try to 1st get up in the morning. It can make me cry out in pain trying to sit at my breakfast bar. It hurts like crazy with any pivot of my core, such as trying to get in the dish washer or sit. I tend to give in and collapse onto the stool, which makes me hollar with the stabbing pain in my butt on the stool. Yes, sitting is also somewhat painful and it hurts that spot to lie flat on my back. I went back to my back surgeon and had an xray and Cat Scan. He poured over them and said he really could not see anything wrong. We’ve tried 800 mg. of Ibuprophen and Valiums. They didn’t help. I seem to do better with a Celebrex 200 mg and Neurontin’s up to three times a day. He sent me to 14 sessions of physical therapy with no sign of improvement. The physical therapist thought it was a stuck nerve on the hardware in my back or on scar tissue. Said he couldn’t help me and sent me back to the back Dr. who just sent me for nerve tests EMG(?) something (like electric tuning fork and electric pins )and NCS with an oscilloscope. I won’t get back to him for those results until DEC. 14th. I just went to my chiropractor to get my neck adjusted because it was wrecked from me hunching over in pain and trying to sleep in a non-painful way. I told her all of this and she said she’d try to see if she could help. She could push her finger into my buttock and pin point the painful spot. She did gentle adjustments and electrical stimulation and ultrasound with ice. I go back to her on Monday. I’m ready to let the back Dr. go back in and look. He said there was a slim chance a screw was so minutely loose it couldn’t be seen. I’ll do anything. What do you think?
November 9, 2009 at 3:32 pm |
Sherrill,
So sorry to hear of your problem. The elctrodiagnsotic tests you ahd will probably tell what is going on. If your nerves are being irritated at the spinal level, you;ll see it. In the meantime, go to my other blog http://spinaldecompression.wordpress.com and look for my Free Piriformis Syndrome book. read it and ask your chiropractor about it. You may find relief that way if it is not your old surgery acting up. DO that before having anyone go back into your spine invasively.
Good luck
Dr Barry Marks, DC
December 2, 2009 at 4:18 pm |
Very interesting site, Dr. I have been going over and over to find someone with the same symptoms as I, but don’t see it. I’m not an athlete. I sit all day and don’t really excercise. I don’t have the pain when I am sitting in my Steelcase office chair at work, however, a strange chair(deep seat made for very large person)that I have in my computer room at home gives me problems. The worst of my pain is in the morning when I get out of bed or try to turn in bed. I actually cried this morning. Feels like a strong cramp in the middle of my rt. buttock that causes pain to radiate down rt. leg. The more I move around, the better it feels, but it is very painful to limp around the house trying to get ready for work. Even if I stand straight, then slightly bend forward at the waist, there is terrible pain that radiates down my leg. I found that I could bend down and pick something up if I keep my rt. leg extended straight behind me like a ballerina as I reach to the floor. Very strange. The pain reduces greatly by the time I get to work, although still a little achey, I can bend, touch toes, etc. I have been seeing a D.O. since 11/16/09. He has treated me with anti-inflammatories, cortisone, diathermy, and adjustments.
Piriformis stretches don’t seem to do anything.
I thought things were improving, but after stopped taking the Medrol pak, pain is back as it was in the beginning. I see you are in Orange, CA. Maybe I should come see you?
December 2, 2009 at 4:51 pm |
Hi Nancy,
Sorry you are in pain…your symptoms sound more like a degenerative disc rather than piriformis syndrome. The bending forward at the waist and morning pain are usually signs of degenerative disc disease.
Yes, by all means come by for a Free Consultation. Bring your x-rays, MRI or any other info you ahve and we will sit down and discuss your problem. I will then do a specialized exam with a computer and physical exam to pinpoint your problem. I will then give you my best opinion on what is wrong, how severe its and what your treatment options are with me and elsewhere.
I look forward to meeting you.
Warmest regards,
Dr Barry Marks, DC
December 2, 2009 at 7:13 pm
Thank you for your quick reply, Dr. Marks. Could you tell me why the pain lessens with movement and why it is so strong in the morning?
December 2, 2009 at 11:35 pm |
If it is degenerative disc disease, which I preliminarily surmise it is, your joints stiffen over night due to lack of movement. So in the AM you are painful and stiff. Then as you begin to loosen up the muscles, move the joints, they self lubricate on moving which makes them move more easily. Our bodies generally like movement versus staying still. Piriformis syndrome would be the opposite. In general it feels just fine at rest then when you stretch or move the area it becomes painful.
I hope this helps.
Dr Marks
December 9, 2009 at 11:06 am |
Dr. Marks,
I am a 38 yr old female with chronic low back pain that radiates down my buttocks and right leg. I was diagnosed with scoliosis in high school for which I received treatment. It has caused issues such as what my chiropractor referred to as hot discs in my lower back several times. I had a car accident in 1998 in which I crushed my knee cap on my right leg, this has resulted in 6 knee surgeries since. As a result of my injuries in that accident I was diagnosed with Chronic Regional Pain Syndrome and was treated for until after my last knee surgery in 2005. I now live without a knee cap and walk with my weight to the outside of my foot and leg. In late 2008 I had another car accident in which I reinjured my right knee and received what the doctor referred to as whiplash to my lower back. After returning to my orthopaedist for an eval, he did xrays and referred me back to pain management to help control my CRPS. I have since move to another state and was referred to a pain management doctor here. At my first visit with the new doctor, he told me point blank that I did not have CRPS that I just had whiplash to my lower back and that I had been being treated for CRPS for all those years for nothing. He said that he could do injections in my back and that would fix the pain. He did the injections using a Lidocaine solution, I was pain free for about an hour, he said that with the success of that procedure that he could then proceed on to a more invasive procedure in which he would target the same nerves in my lower back and “shock” them and that would fix my pain for good. Wrong!!! During the last part of that procedure when he was shocking the last nerve I began having pain shooting through my hip and down my right leg. I told him immediately what was happening, of course he told me it was normal and only temporary. He said that the pain from the procedure would subside in a hour and that I would be pain free from then on. Wrong again!! I returned to he office 3 days later for a follow up appt. I explained to him that the pain had continued to radiate from my hip down to my foot on my right side and now I was experiencing numbness from my groin down to my calf. He told me that there was nothing wrong with me, no evidence of what I was describing. He did suggest repeating the procedure to target the nerves that ran through my hip into my right leg. I felt as if I had be cheated, I was promised pain relief instead I only got more pain and suffering. That was in May 2009 and to this day I suffer daily with pain and the numbness seems to be permanent and worsening. I continue to have great difficulty at night getting comfortable and being able to sleep. I know that I have scoliosis and was told by my previous chiropractor that I was showing spondolythesis of L5 could this be causing what I am feeling instead of the procedure causing it. I have been out of work since my last accident due to my injuries and the doctor that performed that procedure pretty much disregarded the symptoms that I am having and have had since then. He told me that he couldn’t find anything wrong with me and I haven’t seen him since. I currently don’t have a physician and no insurance since losing my job. I am going to have to seek medical treatment but, I am terrified that I will be told that the pain and numbness I have doesn’t exist! I live with it every day, all day; what do you suggest?
Feeling Helpless,
Lesa Neal
Anderson, SC
December 10, 2009 at 11:56 pm |
Lesa,
I am so sorry to hear of not only your pain, but the hassle you have had to endure with your treatment. I don’t know if you’ve had CRPS or not. It can occur after an accident like you’ve suffered and it is a very mysterious and difficult to diagnose problem. My guess is that it is a more common condition than people realize but is often misdiagnosed. The procedure you had to your nerves was most like radio ablation…it sometimes helps, but the nerve fibers eventually grow back after about 2 years and so the pain returns. The procedure will fail if the wrong nerves are destroyed.
I believe you do have problems and that your doctors are just frustrated because they don’t know how to help you, so they pass you off as an exaggerator.
Certainly, there must be electrodiagnostic tests and an MRI that can show objectively which nerves are not working correctly. From there a treatment plan can be instituted. I’m sure you’ve already looked into some sort of state Medicaid, that would been the place to begin for treatment while you are out of work.
Good luck.
Dr Barry Marks, DC
December 11, 2009 at 3:16 pm |
Dr Marks,
I am a 29 year old female, 120lbs, I have a sedentary secretarial job but I remain active by going to the gym 4-5 times a week. My symptoms have baffled every doctor I have seen.
It began about 1.5 years ago while I was seated at my desk. I began having a stabbing lateral foot pain in my left foot. I tried to walk it off but that didn’t work. It got progressively worse, especially when standing or walking. Sitting didn’t relieve it completely, but lying down was sometimes helpful. I did massage therapy, saw about 6 different doctors including a podiatrist and pedorthist who analyzed my gait (said I was quite neutral), prescribed NSAIDS, rest, stretching etc. The pain would improve sometimes, but never to more than 80%, then it would suddenly worsen and I would be back to square one.
During the course of 6 weeks of physiotherapy about six months ago I began having hip pain. The hip pain worsened and I began having severe sharp electric shock-like pain in my lateral foot when I would bend over and lean forward with my leg straight. My physiotherapist ceased treatment and said I needed to see a doctor again. I was referred to an orthopoedic doctor who said he suspected a tear in my peroneal tendon. He gave me a cortisone injection and I was sent for an MRI.
The cortisone injection into my tendon made my foot pain ten times worse. I was limping around for two weeks in horrible pain. It finally began to wear off and I went in for my MRI. The report on the MRI came back “normal”. However, the doctor went over the results and said it “seemed” like I had a subluxing tendon with a shallow peroneal groove, some thickening and a strange dark spot that he said might be a tear. He then said that I could be having some variant form of sciatica. He sent me for an NCV for tarsal tunnel and the results came back normal. In the course of this the sharp electric pain in my ankle lessened and became more of a feeling of something being pulled or stretched, I could reproduce this pulling sensation by being in a seated position and simply straightening my leg in front of me.
During this time I also began seeing a chiropractor. He has treated me with electorstimulation, massage, ice, and adjustments of my ankle, knee and low back. This seemed to help (got about 80% better) up until October when suddenly things went downhill again and the pain in my foot became more burning like. The pain also began worsening in my hip and has now spread to my low and mid-back. It is the most painful after sitting for long periods, however I have tried to remain active despite all of the pain I have been having, I do light cardio, some weights and a lot of yoga and stretching. I also began using a foam roller to roll out the knots in my leg muscles, which my chiropractor recommended.
The pain in my back, hips and foot now seems to be beginning to happen on the right side now. It began more as butt and hip pain, with some stabbing pains right at the area where my hamstrings meet my butt, but I have intermittent lateral foot pain/burning sensations as well as low back pain (around my sacroiliac joint) and mid back around the base of my rib cage.
The foot pain seems to be correlating more and more with the times when my back is incredibly painful, which is beginning to be all the time now. The orthopaedic doctor upon review of my NCV and MRI again threw up his hands and has simply referred me to a surgeon for my peroneal tendon. My chiropractor recommended I get orthotics, even tho my gait appears normal. He said the foot scan showed I put my weight heavily on the lateral borders of both feet without much pressure in my heels, especially on the left side.
I can’t fathom where all this pain is coming from and why it has been spreading so insidiously. I thought it might be piriformis syndrome or sciatica but no doctors have referred me for tests or differential diagnosis that involve my back, despite my complaints of increasing hip and back pain. I’m not sure where to go from here, and I’m uncertain that surgery is the course of action that will cure everything. Can you recommend any tests I should have done or what I should have ruled out in order to go forward? I’m really desperate for help and I the more internet research I do the fewer answers I find for this weird pain.
Gloria
Seattle, WA
December 11, 2009 at 5:15 pm |
Dear Gloria,
Seems like you have had a tough time of this. My first impression is that you are suffering from a degenerating disc in your lower back. It makes perfect sense. It should have been ruled out at the onset since a seated straight leg raise that casues leg pain is a common finding in lumbar disc degeneration, bulge or herniation. I recommend an MRI of the lower back. You will no doubt find a dehydrated and bulging disc at L4/5 and L5/S1.
Once you have those results, please stop by again to discuss further. Beware: many doctors will say your MRI is negative or normal when it is not. Often if they do not see a huge bulge or a very dehydrated disc, they will say its normal. Any abnormal findings at L4/5 and/or L5/S1 are significant and a problem for your age.
I hope this helps.
Warmest regards,
Dr Barry L Marks, DC
Author of “Cure for Lower Back Pain”
December 24, 2009 at 1:58 am |
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December 24, 2009 at 5:01 pm |
Thank you Matthew!
Warmest New Years wishes to you,
Dr Barry Marks, DC
December 26, 2009 at 10:56 pm |
Hi Dr. Marks,
I wonder if you could help me. I have been out of work for 9 weeks now and still in pain after seeing numerous doctors and not really getting any direct answers. First let me say that I have always had disc problems for many years and sciatic. It was this past August when I was on vacation and could not walk very long because of pain and when I got back I went to the Chiropractor and was put on the decompression machine for about 20 visits. It totally took away my leg pain but not the pain I always have in my lower spine. My last appointment was on 10/17/09 and I went on the decompression machine on my stomach for the first time and it did not sit very well with me, but by the end of the day I did feel better and then the next day I was fine but then on Monday when I was at work, I was walking across the room when all of a sudden I almost collapsed to the floor because of stabbing pain in my lower spine. I was able to make it to my seat and I was afraid to get up and when I did about 30 minutes later, I couldn’t even put one foot in front of the other and had to be taken out in a wheelchair. The pain was excruciating. I had an MRI done in June of 2009 and another one on November 4, 2009. The MRI findings on 11/4 were as follows: Minimal loss of T2 brightness is noted at L4-L5 and L5-S1 disc space level. Loss of disc height is seen at L5-S1 level. On the axial sequencce, minimal disc bulge is seen at L4-L5 level however, no foraminal stenosis is seen. At L5-S1 level, small right paracentral posterior disc herniation is seen causing compression of the thecal sac and right
nerve root at this level. The remiander of the disc spaces show no evidence of any disc herniation.
I went to the orthopedic surgeon and he suggested epidoral shots and said I had enough going on with me to warrant a consultation with a neurosurgeon. It took 24 days before I was able to get the first epidoral shot and I was in tremendous pain those 24 days that was at a level 10 most of the days and the last 3 days before the epidoral, I couldn’t even move and would be screaming in pain and had to be brought to the office in a wheelchair because once again, I couldn’t put one foot in front of the other. That was on 11/11. I went to a neurosurgen and he told me that just because I have back pain does not necessarily mean that it is coming from the disc. He told me that if my herniation was bigger than it was in June then I shouldn’t see the PM Dr. because a shot would not help me, but since the herniation was not any bigger he told me to keep my appointment with the PM Dr. and get the Epidoral shot and see how that works. The neurosurgeon kept asking me if I had leg pain and I explained that I used to have tremendous leg pain, but I had been going to the chiropractor on the decompression machine and the leg pain is totally gone, but he didn’t seem to think it was my herniated disc giveing me the problem because the leg pain was no longer there. So I had the epidoral on 11/11 and it did nothing for me. Then I had a 2nd epidoral on 11/23 and it helped a little, at least the pain level came down from a 8-10 to a 5-6 but still not able to function. I can’t sit without getting up and not being able to move right away and prior to that I couldn’t sit at all. I can’t walk long and I can’t move from side to side with my hips. The pain is all on the right side of me in my lower spine over my buttuck area. I went for a 2nd opinion with another neurosurgeon and he said he is not convinced that my pain is from the herniated disc because he said that I have alot of room there still and definately the disc is herniated and I have compressed nerves and some arthritis only on the right side, but he still was not convinced once again because I do not have the leg pain. He thought perhaps I might have fractured it, but could not see that on the MRI, so he ordered a Nuclear Spect Test, but my insurance company denied me having the test and now it is in appeals. Three nights ago I happened to stumble over a pair of boots my daughter left in the walkway and immediately the pain came right back full force and later that night when I went to bed I could not move left or right and was screaming in pain and it took 20 minutes with the help of my husband to get me out of bed. The pain was once again excruciating. I have also been going for acupuncture now and so far have only had 4 visits but so far it does not seem to be helping. Three nights ago when I had that episode and couldn’t move, my husband called the 2nd neurosurgeon that I had seen but he was away this week and his associate returned my call and after speaking with him telling him all that went on he told me that it sounded like I have been having spasams and gave me a perscription for Dilauded 2mg and 10 mg tablets of Flexeril. I am taking the generic of these two and I am also on Nabumetone 500 mg for the arthritis. Like I said, it has been 9 weeks that I have been out of work and in pain, and I really want to get back to work, but I am still in pain and have to watch every move I make. I can’t sit long, walk long, go up or down stairs without going extremely slow one step at a time or move side to side and I can’t bend partial. I can bend all the way down, but not partial. I can’t bend back at all and at this point, I have the orthopedic Dr. and the Pain Management Dr. telling me it is my herniated disc giving me the problem and the 2 neurosurgeons that I went to don’t seem to think that is the problem at all, but they are both baffled. I am at my wits end, because I am still in pain and can’t work like this and I want my life back but I am not getting any direct answers and none of the medications seems to help at all. I can’t take anything with codeine and I was on tramadol and steroids and pain patches and they were of no help whatsoever. Do you think you may be able to shed some light on this? Sorry for such a long story, but I really am at my wits end and I’m tired of crying and not being able to enjoy my family or get things done. Thanks for any help you can give me, I would greatly appreciate it.
Joanne
December 27, 2009 at 6:11 pm |
Hi Joanne,
I have a few questions for clarification:
*Were all of your decompression sessions face down or just the last one?
*Why did you stop at 20 sessions if your leg pain was gone but you still had back pain?
*Has your chiropractor shown any interest in or tried spinal manipulation (adjustments)?
Your problem could be coming from the disc in question despite a lack of leg pain. The disc itself has nerves within it that can be painful and cause lower back pain without leg pain. Many medical doctors, particularly surgeons do not like to get involved with discs that do not cause leg pain…surgery has a much less successful immediate outcome for these cases.
Your problem could also be caused by what chiropractors call a “subluxation” or misalignment of the vertebrae. I am particularly thinking that since your back pain seemed to be intensified by lying face down and is aggravated by bending backwards as opposed to forward. This is a painful, yet usually easily corrected problem. From 2 to 6 visits to a competent chiropractor should have an acute subluxation calmed down enough to walk and get around.
I prefer applying interferential electrical stimulation with moist heat to the back prior to adjusting in case like yours. Then follow it up with an ice pack for 12 min.
By the results of your prior treatment and the MRI findings, I believe chiropractic adjustments would be safe and warranted. There is nothing in your history or medical findings that would give me hesitation to attempt a trial of adjustments on you to see how you responded. I must caution however, that you may feel worse for a few visits before better and that many orthopedists will try to dissuade you from seeing a chiropractor for a disc problem. That is an opinion based solely on bias and not sound medical reasoning, as there is plenty of evidence that chiropractic manipulation for disc problems is more effective than medication, physical therapy and/or epidurals.
I wish you luck and please do reply back with the answers to the questions I posed and any additional information that may help me assist you further.
Dr Barry Marks, DC
For more information on How to Diagnose Your Own Lower Back Pain and the Most Effective Forms of Treatment see Cure for Lower Back Pain
December 29, 2009 at 6:38 pm |
Hi Dr. Marks,
Thanks for responding. In answer to your questions, all of my decompression visits were on my back except for the last one on 10/17. I stopped going because it was on 10/19 that I was in excruciating pain and could not even walk. My chiropractor had asked me if I wanted to continue the decompression since the pain in my spine was still there and I told him yes because the leg pain was gone and for that alone I was so greatful and wanted to keep it that way. I just stopped going because I had been in tremendous pain 2 days after my last visit with him. He did not do any adjustments on my back. The only thing we did was the decompression machine and the stimulation thing with the electrodes with heat packs. It’s been 10 weeks now that I have been out of work and I am somewhat better but still not functioning. I can’t stand long or sit long and if I step hard the pain starts up again real bad. When I do lay down, I wasn’t always haveing a problem. I will say however, that whenever I laid face down on the bed, that I could never have my back arched or have my head high on a pillow because of back pain. I have a headboard that has spokes and for the last couple of years, I hold on to it to turn myself around because I always have pain, but now this pain is the same only 10x worse and I there are nights that I just can’t move. My husband has been telling me go to back to the chiropractor and go back on the decompression machine but I am scared to because of all the pain I am in and I just don’t want to do any more damage. Today, I spoke with my insurance company and asked them why they denied me have the Nuclear SPECT test for the 2nd time now and they told me they did not have any x-rays. I told them I had an x-ray and an MRI done on November 4 so they told me to fax the MRI results to them and they would put it through appeals again and that I should hear from them within 24 hours. Again, I appreciate you getting back to me. Are you suggesting that I should call my chiropractor and have him do adjustments on me?
Thanks!
Joanne
December 29, 2009 at 6:50 pm |
Oh Dr. Marks, also, the neurosurgeon suggested that I go back to the PM Dr. and ask him to do a trigger shot right in the spot that hurts. I have an appointment on 12/31 with him and was going to ask him to do that since I am still in pain and supposed to go back to work on the 4th of January, but right now I am still not ready to go back being the way I am. Do you think I should have this shot done?
Joanne
December 29, 2009 at 7:49 pm |
Hi Joanne,
As I suspected…lying on your stomach for decompression can be done, but I never suggest it. I believe your spine is subluxated. I would recommend getting adjusted and then possibly back on the decompression but on your back. The pain shot is up to you. I’d give it about a 50/50 chance of reducing your pain. I’d start with the chiro adjust and decompression.
Dr Barry L Marks, DC
Medical Director, Orange Spine & Disc Rehabilitation Center
January 2, 2010 at 6:52 pm |
Thanks Dr. Marks, I just went to the PM Dr. on Thursday and he would not give me the shot, he said to just wait a little longer and he definately would not recommend surgery.
Again thank you and Happy New Year!!!
January 2, 2010 at 7:10 pm |
Dr. Marks, one quick question. If my back is subluxated, wouldn’t that have shown on my MRI?
Thanks,
Joanne